more detailed flows of recycled fibers into their own and competitor input streams, but if these models exist, they have not been made available for environmental analyses. The urgency of refining data is highlighted by potential environmental and commercial issues involving specific products such as liquid paper board and recycle-based copy paper. In Australia, both products have interesting histories and currently face predicaments. Liquid paper board is a difficult product to collect and recycle. In addition, it is not produced in Australia and must be imported. Thus, it is a sitting target both commercially and environmentally for attack by the local producers of plastic containers. However, the situation is not all bad—liquid paper board provides fully bleached long fiber, which is in short supply in Australia. Without the detailed data necessary for quantitative comparisons, it is difficult to move arguments away from initial superficial responses.